Teaching of ThaBarWa
Sayadaw U Ottamasara
Middle Way and Sacca Dhamma Dialogue
with French Yogi
at ThaBarWa Centre (45th Street)
28th May 2013
Question : Is
the observer the same as the “moving mind”? Sometimes I can withdraw from the
mind and stay in a still place watching the mind going from place to another. Is this mind the same as the observer?
Sayadaw : There
is no person, no someone, so there is no observer, no meditator. Someone is to
use-only. You should not think about someone or something. Just the truth is ... ever new impermanent nature; not someone, not something.
Question : Is
this still mind a bridge between the consciousness and what we call
enlightenment?
Sayadaw : You
should not pay attention to your mind, not pay attention to something, or to
“someone is working”, or to “someone is still”. That is the nature of mind.
Although you are using the mind, you don’t know about the
truth of the mind. The truth of the mind is : not to reject, not to be attached
but to use-only, to experience-only. There
might be stable mind, there might be busy mind, there might be angry mind but
you should not pay attention to what is happening to the mind. You should pay attention to the truth of : to
use-only, to experience-only, not to reject, not to be attached.
You should know about the truth of the created truth, the
truth of the mind, the truth of the body. You take care of yourself. This means that you take care of your mind and
body. This is because of the wrong understanding of : there is “I”,
there is “you”. We are used to take care
of ourselves because there is the wrong understanding of “I” and “you”.
The truth is : to use-only, to experience-only, not to
reject, not to be attached.
You should not forget the truth: to use-only, to
experience-only, to do-only.
Whatever you do, don’t forget the truth of do-only, not to
be attached.
Not to be attached means that if you pay attention to your
actions, there is attachment. If you are
interested in what is happening, in what you are doing, there is attachment. If
you are interested in what is happening to you, there is attachment.
Not to be attached, not to reject also; to use-only, to
experience-only.
Pay attention to the truth : to use-only, to
experience-only.
Question : Is
it Anatta?
Sayadaw : My
teaching is mostly concerning the right understanding. It is not about the method or about the
experience, not about the mind, not about the body. Body and mind are to be
used-only, not to be attached to or to reject.
We are always using our mind and body but without
understanding the truth of : neither to reject nor to be attached to. This is
why we should pay attention to the truth of not to reject neither to be
attached to.
Question : So
we develop Equanimity, Uppekha?
Sayadaw : If
you pay attention to the right understanding, there will be equanimity between
“you” and “me”, between this experience or that experience, between this place
and other places. Right understanding is more important.
We will meditate, we will keep precepts or make donations,
we will do something but, whatever we do we are using the wrong understanding
which is with the idea of “my life”, “my belongings”, “my place”. This
understanding is wrong. So if you meditate you will automatically be using “I
am meditating”, “my experience”, “I know”, “I don’t know”, “my understanding”;
that understanding is not the right understanding.
This is why you must meditate but instead of taking care of
a method or experience, just take care of the right understanding.
Question : So
not pushing and not pulling…?
Sayadaw : Yes,
but also not misunderstanding, there is no something. The truth is there is no something. If you
push, there is the idea of something, this is wrong. If you pull there is also the idea of something.
The truth is no something but ever new impermanent nature.
If you think about your mind, about your life, about your future
that means that you are using the wrong understanding. There is grasping to the
idea of “I” or “you”. Using with grasping is wrong. In order to think about
your mind you have to use your mind. In
this way you are using your mind with attachment, with the idea of something,
of “my mind”. That understanding is
wrong.
The mind is to be used-only. Just use-it. Just experience-it. Don’t grasp what is
happening as “what is this”, “what is happening”, “what will happen next”,
there is grasping in those questions, grasping to the mind.
I am not feeling well but just not paying attention to my
body and to my mind. Just using-only, just experiencing-only. Because of the
right understanding, no attachment to the sickness. Not only to me but also to
other people. Later I am going to the hospital, to teach other patients but in
this situation also, no attachment to the people, and no attachment to the
feeling of not feeling well. No attachment to the hospital.
You must pay attention to the right understanding and you
must follow according to the right understanding. You should not think about
yourself neither you should think about your mind.
Question : But
if I am not well I cannot help people. I
have to be well in order to help others so we have to care a little bit of
ourselves … if we don’t have energy we cannot give energy to people so we have to
be full of energy first ... to keep the body and mind in good shape. Then we have energy to give to people.
Sayadaw : You
must try to detach from the life, to the past, to the body and to the mind. If
you cannot it means there is attachment. All happenings are because of
attachment. If you have attachment to be
healthy, there is attachment to the disease and this is why you must suffer
with the disease. If you can
detach…healthy or not health should not be in your mind. If sickness is in your
mind, there is attachment.
Meditation is trying to remove everything from the mind.
Your life should not be in your mind. Your
life should be only in the human society not in your mind. The problem is concerning
our mind. There are a lot of experiences in the mind, a lot of attachment.
The aim of meditation is trying to detach from everything,
in this way, mind will be mind only, without attachment. Right understanding is
more important. I am not feeling well but I can do good deeds, I can explain.
Feeling well or not is not important. How
you use the situation is important. How
you use your life is important. How you spend your time is more important.
If you can do good deeds, you might be young or old, might
be healthy or sick but if you can do good deeds your life is valuable. If you cannot do good deeds your life is not
valuable. If you cannot abandon the idea that it is important to be healthy you
will have to take care of yourself and in this way you cannot take care of the
truth.
The truth is : to use-only, to do-only, to experience-only,
to do-only, not to reject or to be attached. That truth is more important. In
order to be able to take care of the truth, you must stop taking care of other
situations.
I teach you to change your understanding not the action.
What you are doing is not the leader. What
you understand is the leader. What you are doing is just follower. If you take
care of the follower, your mind will be doing mistake. The leader is more
important. What you understand is more important, what you are doing is not
much important.
You must understand that doing good deeds is doing-only, not
to reject or to be attached. Doing only
with right understanding. You must try to be able to detach from yourself, from
what you are doing, from what happen to you and in this way you are in the
right way, you are in the middle way.
End of the interview.